eihrul needs help with tesseract

[vampirefrog]

<eihrul> vampi-the-frog: i have a mission for you
<eihrul> with regards to making tesseract a standalone thing
<eihrul> and also to chuck old lame content
<eihrul> the first order of business is deciding which texture sets sauer currently uses are really of high enough quality to justify keeping them
<eihrul> that may be none of them, depending
<eihrul> but someone should look through and make some recommendations
<eihrul> i am thinking just about everything but lunaran and gibbie textures probably have to go
<eihrul> a lot of the skyboxes are worth keeping, though
<vampi-the-frog> At 8 AM every day I go to art school, and for 6 hours I draw or paint
<vampi-the-frog> then for another hour I eat and go home
<vampi-the-frog> then for 6 more hours I work from home
<vampi-the-frog> I'd really like to help you but I'll just help you look for someone who has the time right now instead of later. I'll post on the forum
<eihrul> well, this is more important
<vampi-the-frog> well of course
* Redon21115 (~redon26@wsip-70-164-72-160.ga.at.cox.net) has joined #sauerbraten
<eihrul> or in any case, you could at least, as you said, solicit feedback on which texture sets mappers actually think are worth keeping at all
<vampi-the-frog> is there a list of texture sets?
<vampi-the-frog> I'll post on the MappingHell forum, and I'll try to help whenever I have time, if someone else doesn't do that before me.
<eihrul> default_map_settings.cfg is generally authoritative in that regard
<CIA-2> tesseract 2b0324c by Lee Salzman in  -> master -> (4 files in 2 dirs) -> added skyshadow map var that allows sky texture to cast shadows - https://github.com/lsalzman/tesseract/commit/2b0324ca027981cfb4f21c2930a93dcd68ecc535
<eihrul> most texture sets we use are in there

Guise, I'll try to do this whenever I have time, but if you can beat me to it:

• Get a list of texture sets
• Maybe make some sort of graphical/web page type presentation with all the texture sets, and maybe even a description for each set
• Make a vote for which stays and which goes.
• Same goes for skyboxes

[Skur]

<eihrul> i am thinking just about everything but lunaran and gibbie textures probably have to go

hell nooo!!! O_O

the gibbies work excellent with tesseracts light and are cool and oldschool while the lunaran textures just fit sauer perfectly! dat heavy metal!! 
i would remove the tec1soc cuz they got no normals/heights/specs n stuff and look lame in tesseract (/even in normal sauer) the egyptsocs could be updated.. there are the missing ones somewhere on quadro, maybe they also got normals/heights/specs? i would also remove these other quakish textures (between tecsoc and egyptsoc on the 2ond/3rd page in the default_map_settings.cfg) and most of the textures between the "duomo" ones and the lunaran textures (also in the default_map_settings.cfg)

no one needs these random textures without normals/heights/specs that dont really fit to any other pack..

besides that: sauer/tesseract has only got ingame multiplayer map(!) sending, thats why most players avoid creating new cfgs for their maps cuz the cant send them ingame then and the instant coop-editing is a big and important part of cube 2 gameplay. so, if you(eihrul) dont feel like adding cfg sending (wich i can understand.. crashing clients bla bla) WE NEED MISANS DAMN WHITE TEXTURE IN THE DEFAULT_MAP_SETTING.CFG!!

[Sauce]

I'd say if you're going to get rid of textures, just get rid of the old cube 1 stuff. All the egypt stuff and other shit. Keep lunarian, trak5, gibbie and techsoc. Maybe some sets like techsoc could be supped up.

[vampirefrog]

Here are screenshots of the texture sets, so we all know what we're talking about

[vampirefrog]

more

[vampirefrog]

My votes:

Yay:
lunaran
gibbie
tomek
textures/nieb
textures/nieb/garden
trak5
gor (though it could use some cleanup)
philipk
noctua


Nay:
mitaman - too miscellaneous, and poorly normal mapped
g_pack - I'm not sure about this one, maybe it could use some cleanup and it might work
painkillah - the stained glass patterns do not tile properly, maybe if this was fixed
aftas - the height maps are really weird on this one, and I've never liked it. maybe if those were fixed
loopix - just one poorly normalmapped texture
dg - besides the first two textures, they should be normalmapped, which they're not
subverse - tacky, incongruent
rorschach - idem
egyptsock - I think everybody's tired of these. they're nice, but old
jf1 - tackyyy
than_ind
ikbase
ik2k - maybe if someone normalmapped and cleaned this one up
tech1soc - they're nice, but old and not normalmapped
payne

[RaZgRiZ]

Most of these texture packs are incomplete.

If you want to rate on them, might as well take a look at ALL of the textures the pack contains and not just the few eihrul handpicked to save space

[eihrul]

Oh, cool, thanks for making screenshots vampi!

I guess I personally rather like lunaran, gibbie, phillipk, tomek, and perhaps aftas.

The gor ones I dunno myself.

Also, worth looking at, Gregor made some new texture sets for the Mozilla BananaBread project. Some of them could be worth using. Look at the gor and gk directories here: https://github.com/kripken/BananaBread/tree/master/cube2/packages

Also also, if anyone has any recommendations for good bumpmapped texture sets that are never the less compact, don't hesitate to mention. Wood/urban textures especially we are lacking.

[Skur]

I guess I personally rather like lunaran, gibbie, phillipk, tomek, and perhaps aftas.

The gor ones I dunno myself.

you should definitely keep them, but i would also keep trak5 and and at least some of the painkillah textures since they got good bumpmaps and are very useful for non-transparent windows on medieval maps. I agree that MitaMANs bumpmaps arent the best but his textures are still very good, maybe we'll find someone to make new bumps.

Also also, if anyone has any recommendations for good bumpmapped texture sets that are never the less compact, don't hesitate to mention. Wood/urban textures especially we are lacking.

http://www.quadropolis.us/node/3163

ps: we also need a new default gras texture! i'd go for blindabuser's "ba_grass_cc.jpg"

[vampirefrog]

Here's one http://nobiax.deviantart.com/art/Free-3D-textures-pack-13-239291726

Also, are we going to do the same for mapmodels? Some really crappy ones in there right now. And lots of free model resources on the net.

[vampirefrog]

Also, I don't see the problem with keeping non-bumpmapped texture sets, as long as they're not tacky or low-res.

[vampirefrog]

I think eihrul wants to keep the whole thing below 100M http://cubeengine.com/forum.php4?action=display_thread&thread_id=2534

[Sauce]

I think keeping it under 100m is too limited and unnecessary. Tesseract is intended for users with an above average computer. In most cases, a person with an above average computer doesn't care about file size. Would be way too limited with only 100m, then what, not add on to it without deleting other shit? I think Tesseract can be bigger then Sauerbraten, since it is specifically targeted towards those with good computers, where Sauer is for everyone.

[Apollo]

Under 100 Gigs. Downloadable in less than a month by torrent.



Or we could just mail clusters of flash drives to each other. Might be faster.

[Skur]

lol  but i agree with sauce, i think verything < 3 gigs would be fine, making it 100 mb makes no sense to me, neither worrying about normal sauer's file size while not removing old crap (and adding new crap >_> cubetown... SRSLY? )

[vampirefrog]

http://cubeengine.com/forum.php4?action=display_thread&thread_id=2534&start=64

So, I dunno how people will react to this, but I have come to one conclusion with regards to Tesseract gameplay:

So long as Tesseract is not really stand-alone and just parasitic off of Sauerbraten content, it is essentially useless. For Tesseract to truly live, the Sauerbraten parts of it must sadly die.

So what I think I am going to do is make a sort of stripped-down "Sauer lite", that mostly just focuses on a sort of rocket-gib gameplay, and nothing else, with a main goal of keeping the download size close to 100MB or not much bigger.

Anything extraneous to this like pickups (weapons, armour, etc.), SP, old game modes like capture and hold, old maps, etc. I am just going to cut from the codebase. It will also let me muck around with some various other gameplay aspects in general without disturbing Sauer gameplay at all.

So depending on how you look at it, it will either end up being just a smaller demo game for people to base off of, or a more insta-focused Sauerbraten TC with less but higher quality content. With no more dependence on Sauerbraten, the engine and other aspects can more freely evolve without disrupting Sauerbraten itself.

[Skur]

http://cubeengine.com/forum.php4?action=display_thread&thread_id=2534&start=64

So, I dunno how people will react to this, but I have come to one conclusion with regards to Tesseract gameplay:

So long as Tesseract is not really stand-alone and just parasitic off of Sauerbraten content, it is essentially useless. For Tesseract to truly live, the Sauerbraten parts of it must sadly die.

So what I think I am going to do is make a sort of stripped-down "Sauer lite", that mostly just focuses on a sort of rocket-gib gameplay, and nothing else, with a main goal of keeping the download size close to 100MB or not much bigger.

Anything extraneous to this like pickups (weapons, armour, etc.), SP, old game modes like capture and hold, old maps, etc. I am just going to cut from the codebase. It will also let me muck around with some various other gameplay aspects in general without disturbing Sauer gameplay at all.

So depending on how you look at it, it will either end up being just a smaller demo game for people to base off of, or a more insta-focused Sauerbraten TC with less but higher quality content. With no more dependence on Sauerbraten, the engine and other aspects can more freely evolve without disrupting Sauerbraten itself.

why? i dont think that many people are interested in a stripped down version of a game, but with better gfx. since you need a high-end pc to play tesseract, most people playing wont have to care about filesize so.. why not make it bigger? if people like your game they will keep it, but if they dislike it they wont keep or play it just because its damn small.

well.. of course thats just how i think about that.

[vampirefrog]

it's not the file size on disk, it's the download size.

[Sauce]

I see what he's saying, but the game isn't bad computer friendly, so might as well go all out with model quality etc. Though having a nicer version of sauer to play, that you don't have to calc in, if you have an amazing computer, doesn't make Tesseract useless, that is cool. Though, on the other hand, it would be cool to see tess evolve separately. I personally think if someone tried to mod a more commercial type project with it, it would be the best idea. Like a Halo or Call of Duty; I'd prefer Halo 1000 times more. Though no one will. I guess if he stripped it down to do what he plans, it will make it only 100 megs, though it shouldn't be limited by that. Even 6 gigs isn't a big deal anymore, so fuck it.